The Facebook whistle-blower opens up to Kara Swisher.
By Caitlin O'Keefe Producer, Opinion Audio |
In September, my nerdy journalist group chat started blowing up with news about Facebook. As one friend put it: "The WSJ reviewed a bunch of Facebook documents and they are … not great." |
Over the next few days, The Wall Street Journal articles kept coming; they revealed just how much Facebook was keeping from the public. We saw evidence that the tech giant had made choices to algorithmically reward rage, and that they had known of harmful effects that Instagram was having on the mental health of teen girls. (The documents showed that Instagram made body image issues worse for one in three teenage girls.) |
By early October, we learned the identity of the Facebook whistle-blower who had leaked tens of thousands of pages of documents from inside the company. Frances Haugen was a former Facebook project manager who was hoping that her disclosures would help — as she put it in her congressional testimony — "change the rules Facebook plays by and stop the many harms it is now causing." |
By the time Haugen agreed to sit down with Kara Swisher for the Times Opinion podcast "Sway," I still didn't feel I knew the answers to some central questions. Was this going to be the straw that broke Facebook's back? And why did Haugen believe she could change a company that has already weathered scandals like Cambridge Analytica? |
At a pivotal moment in their conversation, Kara challenged Haugen on just that, telling the whistle-blower that — despite the splash around the Facebook Files and her own testimony — she wasn't sure Haugen could prompt change in a leader like Mark Zuckerberg. |
"I think that you will flame out before he does," said Kara. |
Haugen disagreed. "I guarantee you, I will last longer than Mark Zuckerberg. Because I already have." She cited a battle with celiac disease and a near-death experience several years ago, when she had a huge blood clot in her leg. She says she suffered nerve damage in her hands and feet, and was paralyzed beneath her knees. "I want you to imagine living with such bad pain for years that it's like your feet are on fire," said Haugen. |
But she is still here. And she says that's why she believes she — and her mission — have staying power. |
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